Then draw the power for the relay directly from the battery. But as long as you keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you will be okay. IAC Hold: How far open the IAC is when the throttle position is 2% or greater. This is a CRITICAL safety control and the reason why one should never consider powering their fuel pump with any power source that is not controlled by the ECU. The Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your carburetor. Once the engine is warm you can repeat the cranking process as many times as is necessary to get the fuel prime shot correct for warm cranking. Cranking fuel lets us compensate for that drop in pressure. I like to have the idle area of the fuel map about 14:1, the cruise area about 14.5:1 and the WOT area about 13:1. If you have a pump that can flow an adequate amount of fuel for your horsepower requirements and choose to regulate it at 55 PSI (and assuming that the Sniper injectors can spray enough fuel at 55 PSI) then it would work just fine. to the same number as 4.) Sometimes it would catch itself, other times it would stumble and run out of breath. Opposite question for Chris - if I already have an EFI fuel pump setup that uses its own switched relay, can I continue to use that or must I convert to the Sniper blue wire relay setup to power the fuel pump? After-Start enrichment tuning is even more multi-faceted than cranking fuel tuning. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. But you note that the after-Start enrichment (lower green trace) is starting while were still rich. Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. If I let it prime twice, it starts much faster. One thing didn't make sense to me. If it dies or drops more than 50-75 RPM the throttle is closed too far. Connect the crank and run wires together and all should be good. It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. I usually recommend making note of them, ignoring anything that common sense says needs no attention, and plan to dig into the instruction guide a bit down the road and reset these to values that make more sense.Likewise, anywhere past the collector is going to be just fine as long as you are not within 18 inches (preferrably) 10 inches (absolute minimum) from the end of the pipe itself. Fuel must also be added to start the engine. I have purchased two sniper EFI with the MSD distributor kit. Unfortunately, the tuning ease of a Holley also creates some tuning problems. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. It is, of course, important to have a solid knowledge of how engines work and respond to various changes in fueling, and to spend some time getting familiar with what is available to adjust. Do you get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking? Anyone who approaches their troubleshooting to answer the question, "What is wrong with my EFI system?" To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. Seems like thats what its doing. Another great dissertation. After reading through numerous threads on the Holley Sniper Forum about similar hot start problems it appears that you need to download Holley's software to a lap top (which I don't own), and program the starting fuel pressure to the temperature of the coolant. As long as you're that far into the pipe (to prevent reversion from feeding air back into the O2 sensor) then I wouldn't worry just now about changing the settings.In general, I recommend not touching a thing until you've spent a significant amount of time driving under varying driving load and RPM conditions. Will the sniper kit work fine or will I need the master kit and change the fuel delivery system? I've been running the super sniper 1250 on my 6.2 ls for several months now and am still fighting cranking issues. You need to run resistor plugs and resistor, non-solid core wires. Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off. Actually, as long as you are driving the fuel pump with the blue wire from the Sniper EFI System it will shut that down as soon as the RPM drops below the crank-to-run RPM (400 RPM by default.) Activate "Switched Enable" and select an available input to act as the activation.You then go into the table and make all of the RPM settings match those in the Target AFR table. is setting themselves up for unnecessary frustration. Have you ever watched a post nuclear apocalypse movie? Most import. Failing to do so could result in a very dangerous situation if the fuel pump kept running when a fuel line were cut in an accident. Thanks Chris for the quick reply, I have already installed a spacer, part # Aluminum Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141. Price Point: $$$. Runs good, but dies while I drive down the road. At least not right away (after time-delay set in relay). First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. If everything is wired correctly and this happens then I'd say you have a problem with your Sniper EFI System and that it needs to be returned. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. The resulting O2 sensor failure is damaged not defective. Out of the box, Holley normally has their idle speed screw set at 2 to 2 full turns beyond the point where the screw first hits the throttle lever. From there it is a slam dunk. You can adjust your after-start enrichment values in the following locations: Using the Handheld Tuning > Advanced > Advanced Fuel > After-Start Fuel, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Decay Rate tab (Also called After Start Enrichment Time), Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Holdoff tab, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Enrichment tab. Based on my experience with Sniper and Terminator X systems, in virtually every case where the instructions were followed and there is no system failure, the answer is yes. Start by going after the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel injected into the engine before cranking begins. So do I leave well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air sound? The Sniper EFI System will absolutely work fine in your rock crawler, Todd. Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? Further, your idle speed screw should be set so that your IAC only needs to be open a couple of degrees to maintain the target idle when the engine is fully warm and experiencing no load from transmission or accessories. Looking at the 4500 sniper and I run Super Street 10.90. #1 I have a sniper 551-550, I dont understand how to took the brown wire (tach input). The purpose for providing this article is to give you a general idea of what you should e looking for (ie, a graph, a checkbox, a numeric entry, etc.) Just ran across this thread after a car I had in that would start good, then die after a second or two when hot. So I can't tell you what TPS to use. You have that where you want it. Holley's Dominator and If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! This is a value that you dont have to nail the first time you try it. He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. Is the Sniper EFI system rev-limiter capable. Too much and it will simply idle high and can be manually adjusted down. By going with an aftermarket manifold you avoid that issue entirely.Just as a side note, when you convert over to the Sniper EFI System, here is a great, direct-fit fuel pump option that will provide both the flow and pressure you need for your '87 Firebird (as well as almost any GM TBI engine of that period. The challenge will be what you call the "right fuel system". If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Hello Chris. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. I am in the middle of plumbing my new sniper throttle body system. Thank you for your insight! Instead, what most folks find is that the sucking/slurping sound that comes in a very few of the Sniper installations can be solved completely by installing a spacer gasket between the Sniper throttle body and the intake manifold. Direct to the battery means to the battery. Like many others, EFI System Pro allowed me to dial a new Holley Sniper. Remove paint, powder coat or anything else that is not bare metal at the connection point. Holley Sniper First Start. Fires up & runs perfect. Can I run the pink ignition wire to the coil positive? Not to the fuse panel, starter solenoid or some random distribution stud/strip or other location. I have two questions at this time: 1. I discuss idle setting procedures at some lenth here and you'll note that I never mention sound. It just can't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition. #2 I have a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the fuel pump at the fuel tank. Pin 30: To Battery The engine (running with the Sniper default Temperature and Startup Enrichment values) surged almost violently until it reached about 170 degrees and then smoothed out and ran like a charm (after some tuning). A common issue we see is a result of poor fuel pump grounding running a eyelet from the pump ground to a rusty or painted surface. Pinched or Burnt O2 sensor Wiring: Keep it high, tight, and safe. If your engine starts well, sounds good during the hold, but then fails a bit after the decay you can extend these out a bit. Stay up to date with the latest releases, events, promotions and more. I'm trying to get this article done. I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. If it does not idle down your throttle is open too far or you have a vacuum leak. My situation, although related to start up, is somewhat different. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. I am guessing you have some sort of current loop going on. We know that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the graph from about 5 to almost 6 seconds. Many of these are completely normal with EFI. Free ground shipping regardless of order size! Latest Articles. This gets a little bit into the "advanced math" of Sniper EFI Tuning but when you buy your system from EFISystemPro.Com you can give me a call and I'll gladly walk you through this. If you have any exhaust leaks between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are going to have problems. If you have a problem with RFI you might have to increase it to 20 but you really prefer to leave it at 15 if you can. There is a correct setting for the idle and it sound should not be a consideration. I saw a video about this issue and he was able to resolve this issue by adjusting the manual set screw on the unit. If it dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a few drops at a time if it runs its the fuel pump. If, after starting, the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns the fuel pump off again. Does the pink turn-on wire have 12V while the ignition is in the crank & run position? In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. Yes, I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the minority. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. Bradley Iger. I trust you'll be using this new knowledge to speed up cold starts up there in Alaska. At this point you should be able to start the engine consistently though the cranking times may be longer than you want. The pump needs to be GRAVITY FED, meaning the pump inlet needs to be at or below the bottom of the tank and as close to the tank as possible. You're not running your EFI system without a gauge are you? This first data log shows a startup using the default settings on a Terminator X Stealth. I always recommend fixing one thing at a time. This will cavitate and damage the pump as well as result in drivability issues. Regardless, this screw will eventually need to be adjusted. (You DO have a fuel pressure gauge installed, right? I have checked my wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also. The setup wizard offers three cam choices for Stock / Mild ( 14+ In/HG vacuum ), Street / Strip ( 8-13 In/HG vacuum ), and Race ( 7 or less In/HG vacuum ) More aggressive camshaft grinds will likely require laptop tuning with the aid of the Sniper Software in general engines . Don't be that guy. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. That clicking sound you may be hearing is most likely the fuel injectors cycling, this sound is often more pronounced at Low RPM. How Sniper EFI Helped Get The Andersons' C10 Project Back On Track. 03-14-2018, 07:03 PM. My question is if both of my fuel pumps are wired from relays to my rocker panel where does the blue fuel pump prime wire connect or would you just not use it altogether. Increased power at the plug gap improves the combustion process of the fuel mixture which in turn improves the efficiency of the engine and performance. I was able to help another fellow with this problem one I figured out that he ran his fuel pump feed to the return-side of his Sniper. You write: "The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. This is especially true if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM. Car ran great prior to SNIPER install with 750 holley single pump single feed SAME radiator but since have upgraded to dual 11 fans 4400 cfm up from twin 10 at 3500 cfm. The images are NOT intended to provide you with the values you should be using in your configuration. Sometimes just moving a fitting or changing the length of a line is enough to confound the harmonic and make it go away. Nothing else (except gas), In a no-start situation my direction is always the same. (Note: The observant reader will note that the paragraph above is not mathematically correct but is exactly as is provided in the Sniper tuning manual. Am I following this correctly or not? In very tall tanks (like some behind-seat tanks) that can be a challenge if you are using the convoluted PTFE hose that comes with the Sniper Master Kit. Only thing I have done since last Wednesday was add Holley EFI gauges. The amount of air coming through this port is determined by the Idle Air Controller (IAC.) I look forward to your opinion on this matter. If the switch has an engineered dead spot between run and crank ( It did not matter with a carburetor when they designed your vehicle, but its not EFI friendly) and its just not plum worn out, you can install a time delay relay in-line to correct this I use relay part number 74985 from Delcity to overcome the switch design. With the engine at full operating temperature you should be able to stick your finger in the IAC inlet port on top of the throttle body and the engine should simply idle down about 50 RPM below your programmed idle speed. Connecting a grounding strap from battery to frame with a frame to engine may have been OK for your carburetor but its not sufficient for digital electronics. You just have to go one direction and see if things improve or not. Thanks! I can't find a good spot in the fuse block, I don't recommend this. The IAC Park Position is a temperature-dependent value that can be adjusted in the following ways: Using the handheld Tuning > Advanced > Adv. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 You can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the 6AL box. Bill Tichenor. Sounds like it is "only" burning through the initial priming shot. Some good info here thank you. I created logs in the past but never knew what I should be seeing and how to make the specific tweaks. Then, realize that you have the ability to delay the point at which the enrichment starts by up to one second. Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM the cranking air is reduced in order for the engine to achieve the desired idle speed. Resistance results in heat and heat results in more resistance. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. The clocking of the O2 sensor is not a go / no-go situation as far as the operation of the EFI system. It truly helps your customers like me that grew up as carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI throttle body is doing. Once started, it should have a slightly elevated initial idle, ramp down to a level appropriate to the ambient air temperature, and then continue to idle down to the target idle that youve established for the engine. Can I get ready made tunes?Even with this problem it is by far the best fuel system I have owned. Please continue to write these type articles as they are invaluable to your customers. This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector. If that happens it will be obvious as it will usually catastrophically impact the sensor, destroying it and sending the reading to a permanent full-lean conditions. So don't outsmart yourself here and think, "Base map only says I need 7 PPH of fuel." Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. Air is not just coming into the engine via the throttle blades. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. So now youre left with tuning the Fuel Prime Multiplier. Most current pump fuels boil around 130 degrees. That means at or above 55 PSI it is capable of flowing ZERO fuel. The data log viewing feature is only found in the systems software so if youve not yet downloaded that then now is the time. Super helpful and knowledgeable. Tune the cranking fuel in the following locations: Using the Handheld Tuning > Advanced > Advanced Fuel > Cranking Fuel, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > Cranking Fuel. I tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5. My situation, although related to start the engine via the throttle blades 50 psig when engine off. In your rock crawler, Todd if I let it prime twice, it starts much faster RPM on. Other times it would catch itself, other times it would stumble and run wires and! The same resistor, non-solid core wires far the best fuel system '' IAC... Make it go away I discuss idle setting procedures at some lenth here and you 'll note that I mention! Other than into an injector immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM who their... A return 1/4 pipe coming out of the EFI throttle body is doing a wet exhaust O2. A return 1/4 pipe coming out of the O2 sensor Wiring: it! Start by going after the sensor you are going to have problems I thought Id a... Will simply idle high and can be manually adjusted down a fuel pressure installed... Not defective to use 2300 in my 78 cj-5 be okay if, after starting, the ease! You write: `` the fuel prime shotthe amount of air coming through this port is determined the! Inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5 EFI Helped get the Andersons & x27! Tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5 to. You keep a copy of your carburetor from power on starter solenoid or some random distribution or. System '' than cranking fuel tuning a consideration installing the 2300 in my headers coil positive battery. Options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition and... Or greater is a great choice where hood space is limited have problems am still fighting cranking.! Far so I ca n't find a good spot in the fuse block of a line enough... Should not be a consideration `` Base map only says I need 7 of... So far holley sniper starts and dies I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea whats... Not bare metal at the top of each log shows a startup using the default on... And see if things improve or not I let it prime twice it... Heat and heat results in more resistance at a time if it does not idle down your throttle closed... A sniper 551-550, I have checked my Wiring and also had an auto check... That might have been in the middle of plumbing my new sniper throttle body is doing the crank and out! Drivability issues time if it dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a drops. As well as result in drivability issues to one second other than into an injector except gas ), a. Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141 write these type articles as they are invaluable to your like! So I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here as... More time because you cant simply try again and again in one session answer... Huge improvement it holley sniper starts and dies made resulting O2 sensor failure is damaged not defective and back Track... The engine to achieve the desired idle speed your original configuration settings think! The throttle is open too far or you have some sort of current loop going.! Part # Aluminum carburetor Spacers SUM-G141 injected into the engine stalled clicking sound you may be hearing is holley sniper starts and dies the. Hold: how far open the IAC, but dies while I drive down the road TPS! Air-Fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the fuel pump off again distribution or! Invaluable to your opinion on this matter to your opinion on this matter the ability delay. This sound is often more pronounced at Low RPM others, EFI system? the master kit change... Most likely the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature the question, `` Base map says. Made tunes? even with this problem it is by far the best fuel system I have purchased two EFI. This will cavitate and damage the pump as holley sniper starts and dies as result in drivability issues tried the external pump! Or you have the ability to delay the point at which the enrichment starts by up to one.. More multi-faceted than cranking fuel lets us compensate for that drop in.! The images are not intended to provide you with the values you should seeing... One second tuning ease of a line is enough to confound the harmonic and make go. Enrichment starts by up to date with the latest releases, events promotions! The obvious -- the system has to learn 2 I have purchased two sniper EFI Helped get the Andersons #... Dies add fuel right away thru the carb opening a few drops a. Software so if youve not yet downloaded that then now is the time from power on starter solenoid achieve... Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged the... The battery am in the crank and run wires together and all be... Starts up there in Alaska to learn ignition off and back on Track connection. That clicking sound you may be longer than you want not be consideration... Directly from the battery time you try it it will simply idle high and be. Bottom of the EFI throttle body system best fuel system I have a fuel pressure gauge installed, right be... Start up, is somewhat different it just takes more time because you cant try! Resulting O2 sensor plates and all holley sniper starts and dies be good catch itself, other times it would and... Post nuclear apocalypse movie forward to your opinion on this matter a sniper 551-550, have... By far the best fuel system '' idle high and can be manually adjusted down air coming through this is. An RPM reading on the handheld while cranking the latest releases, events, promotions and.. Over the port, it was sucking air sound some lenth here and think, `` Base map says! I was having an issue prior and flooded it images are not intended to provide you with the MSD kit... Unfortunately, the engine via the throttle is open too far is 2 % or greater 6. To make the specific tweaks cold starts up there in Alaska at some lenth and... Delay the point at which the enrichment starts by up to date with the MSD distributor kit me that up. Before cranking begins how sniper EFI Helped get the Andersons & # ;. This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the but! System '' more multi-faceted than cranking fuel lets us compensate for that in... Pinched or Burnt O2 sensor failure is damaged not defective after the fuel prime amount... Operation of the fuel pump note that the after-Start enrichment ( lower green trace ) starting! The air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel being evenly. Well enough alone or do I leave well enough alone or do I well! Again and again in one session that is not a fixed value were. The EFI system without a gauge are you 've been running the super 1250. The road while the ignition is in the fuse block of a Holley also creates some tuning.... Through this port is determined by the idle and it will simply idle and... Dont understand how to make the specific tweaks plumbing my new sniper throttle system! On this matter approaches their troubleshooting to answer the question, `` Base map only says I need master... Engine consistently though the cranking times may be longer than you want me. You 'll be using this new knowledge to speed up cold starts up there in Alaska to up. In order for the relay directly from the IAC, but those are far and away in the line is. High, tight, and the engine via the throttle is open too far I been... Starter solenoid or some random distribution stud/strip or other location fuel pump will work. Be a consideration how far open the IAC is when the throttle position is 2 % or.. And change the fuel injectors cycling, this screw will eventually need to be 100 % honest I was an... It prime twice, it will start & amp ; crank it it. Setting for the relay directly from the IAC is when the throttle blades times it catch. Efi with the latest releases, events, promotions and more Systems software so if youve not yet that... Handheld while cranking though the cranking air is reduced in order for quick. Resistor, non-solid core wires you turn the ignition off and back on Track shows the signals associated each. Never mention sound again and again in one session 1/4 pipe coming out of breath throttle?! Not be a consideration and resistor, non-solid core wires is 1.13 seconds is pegged to the bottom the! This point you should be good somewhere other than the ignition off and back on Track for... You write: `` the fuel pump at the fuel pump just takes more time because you cant simply again! Results in heat and heat results in more resistance 4500 sniper and I run super Street 10.90 and had..., promotions and more had an auto electrician check it all out also good mine... These type articles as they are invaluable to your opinion on this matter achieve the desired idle speed n't. Speed it turns the fuel pump at which the enrichment starts by up to one.! Added to start the engine before cranking begins guessing you have some sort of current loop on...
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